Note: Below is a condensed version of Mark Martin’s interview with Frontstretch‘s Happy Hour podcast. For the full talk, click the video below or listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Since 2004, NASCAR has used a playoff format to determine its champion.
According to NASCAR Hall of Famer Mark Martin, that’s not what the vast majority of the fanbase of the fanbase desires.
“I read it’s less than one out of 10,” Martin told Frontstretch podcast Happy Hour this week. “The people that want the playoffs – it’s playoffs or a version of playoffs, a modified version – you’re talking about 20%. So it’s an 80/20 issue. I don’t care what they say. I respect what they like … but it’s an 80/20 issue. And I know this for a fact.”
Even so, Martin was on board originally, to some extent.
“And I’ll be honest with you, at first, I liked those eliminations because I felt like it broughteverybody together in the last three races down to 10,” he said. “It brought some drama. But after a while, it winds up being manufactured drama. …
“I don’t advocate for the Latford system, necessarily. I’m talking about 36 races, the whole season. Whoever does the greatest job, it’s harder to win a championship when you got 36 races and you have flat tires and you break parts and you get in wrecks.”
He continued: “You know, it’s tough. Drivers would care, like there would be some whooping going on in this first or second race of the season if somebody messed you up. Now it doesn’t matter if you have a bad race. It really doesn’t matter. … It’s a whole different deal, and I’m not saying it would be more exciting or not even saying it would be as exciting, I’m just saying that the fans want it. Over 50% want 36 races, and then the next 30% want a 10-race Chase.
The origin of the whole topic conversation stemmed from a debate on X. Danielle Trotta and Larry McReynolds both advocated for the playoff format, while Martin wants a full-season championship. Since then, a Frontstretch article garnered further attention on the subject.
The conversation makes Martin feel good about his opposition to the current playoff format.
“I feel really good about it, because now for the first time, I’ve seen a couple of active drivers hint that they wouldn’t mind seeing that,” Martin said. “You can’t expect them to tell the truth because that’s how they make their living. But everyone that you get your information from is beholden to the TV money. Everyone!
“And listen … a lot of the fans want to fault NASCAR, yeah, maybe. But I fault the owners, too. They’re addicted to the money. They want to see whatever the broadcast partners want. And obviously, I haven’t told a lot of the details that I know, but … the broadcast network is one of those that wants the playoffs. They don’t understand racing. All they know is stick-and-ball sports. It also makes it easy. Makes it easy for a broadcaster, makes it easy for a journalist or anyone that covers the sport. They have a readymade talking point every damn race.”
Martin said he owes much of his viewpoint on the current format — particularly how he knows how strongly most fans are in support of ditching it — by going straight to the source: the fans themselves.
“I’m out with the fans,” he said. “I don’t live in a bubble. I’m not beholden to the television money or NASCAR or anyone. The race fans are who I’m beholden to. They kept me in the business forever and they still support me beyond belief.
“And I know for a fact the majority of race fans want 36 races. Now, that doesn’t mean that it’ll be more exciting than the playoffs and the eliminations and all that. I’m not saying it would be more exciting. It might be, because 1992 was a good example of that. … It might be a runaway, [but] embrace that too, because somebody that runs away with it is a badass. But I just am speaking for the fans.
“And I know we’re not going to get 36 races. I know it. But … I’m going to stand up for the people that stood behind me and love the sport and support me. So I’m their voice.”
Martin doesn’t foresee change in the determination of a champion. He blamed the TV partners, especially NBC Sports, which airs the remainder of the Cup season beginning at Iowa Speedway.
“You knew, Jeff Behnke with NBC [the network’s vp of NASCAR], I’ve heard him in a meeting, and he says that when it comes to elimination-round, he can see it in the viewers,” Martin added. “Viewers are tuning in. … What he’s not seeing is the people that aren’t tuning in cause they’re sick of gimmicks. …
“The viewers that Jeff Behnke and NBC are chasing are the ones that aren’t racing fans. They just want to see the sparks and the smoke fly, and they’ll tune in for that. And they won’t watch the pre-race show. I just don’t think they can attract as many viewers, non-racing fan viewers, as they can lose by alienating the historical aspect and tradition of the sport.”
NBC Sports declined Frontstretch’s request for comment,
Although there is a committee of people, including Denny Hamlin and media member Jeff Gluck and Martin, who advise NASCAR about the playoffs, NBC Sports overrules them all.
“That’s the appalling part on it,” Martin said. “And I have seriously considering resigning. I considered it after the first meeting because I was embarrassed. Because I didn’t sugarcoat it. I told them about how it was. … After the second meeting, I thought even more about it. I’m going to resign, because there is no use in me being on this because no one’s interested in what the fans want to do.
“… We got a letter from NBC saying they had re-upped for a long time and we can’t have another scheduled meeting about this points deal until they have a say, because they should have a big say in it. And we can’t have a meeting with them for … a long time.”
Martin admittedly does not know what the phrase ‘Game 7 moment’ means.
However, those desiring a full-season championship battle will be sorely disappointed by the committee members.
“Not a single soul on that committee has advocated for a full season points,” Martin stated. “Everyone in the sport knows what the TV partners want. And they also, I’m not saying that they’re wrong, they want to see the most exciting format. And I’m not saying that’s wrong, I’m saying the fans don’t want that. They don’t want this, they want traditional. And if you structure the points correctly, you can have a great championship battle right down to the last race. … And if someone runs away, give them their credit.”
Whatever the future may hold for the sport, Martin knows one thing is certain: he doesn’t hold any ill will toward McReynolds and he knows the feeling is mutual.
“I love Larry McReynolds,” Martin said. “Even when the stuff went down, I sounded so bad on Sirius[XM] Satellite Radio. I know Larry McReynolds. He was my crew chief in 1982. I drove his car that he crew chiefed in early 1982. I know Larry McReynolds. There’s not a mean cell in his body. So I knew that he wasn’t talking about me or didn’t want it the way it sounded. It’s been one heck of a mess. I just feel bad because I know the race fans are in for a disappointment.”
Watch the full interview with Martin, in which he goes into the playoff-related topics more in depth, above.
Mark Kristl joined Frontstretch at the beginning of the 2019 NASCAR season. He is the site's ARCA Menards Series editor. Kristl is also an Eagle Scout and a proud University of Dayton alum.
Mark is 100% correct. I have always hated the playoff system!
Absolutely agree with everything Mark said . Playoffs is one of biggest reasons I hardly watch NASCAR anymore. And I used to watch almost every race and went to a race or two every year. Racing isn’t football baseball. Even those the best record gets into playoffs . Maybe if they did that instead of one win and your in . I don’t know if that would do it for me .would be better .
LOVE Mark Martin , although he never won a Championship, he’s my Champion !!
Mark Martin literally wrote the book on NASCAR. ‘NASCAR for DUMMIES”, would be a good read for the current NASCAR executives. They would benefit from the wisdom.
I agree with Mark it needs to be 36 the champ is all not the last 10
I was once an avid MLB fan but now I only tune in to the World Series games. I’m headed the same way with NASCAR because of the playoff format. Mark Martin is absolutely right Look at the empty seats in the grandstands. Greed is killing the sport
I agree with Mark. I don’t watch it anymore. I miss the strategy with fuel and tires for the entire race. I hate the stages. I’ve gone to F1 and WEC and Imsa.
If available watch the Supercar races from Down Under. You’ll see why SVG is so good on road courses.
Totally on the same page as Mark Martin. Bring back the season long points accumulation…..
I’d listen to MM, because I believe it’s farcical that the 22 car last year could win a championship because of the track selection, after such a dismal season!
I agree that the championship format was OK at first, as a big fan from the 1980s I have changed my mind. Give the winner more points and take away the lucky dog! Bring back the old tracks like Rockingham, go back to your roots nascar!
I haven’t missed a race since 89 and I love today’s format
I enjoy the playoffs. I hated knowing that the champion only had start the last race to be crowned. Now, you don’t know until the very last lap! I support a rotation of tracks in the playoffs, that is phoenix isn’t always the championship race and other cut off races be changed out. People complain about Joey, but he did want he needed to. Everyone had the opportunity. The playoffs also give drivers something to drive for with the playoff points. Remember people hanging in the back at Talladega? They may have won or came closer to winning, but they got no playoff points to add. That is what Joey is good at. Modify the playoffs, but don’t go back.
I personally hate the new nascar, they have destroyed the sport with to many rules, the stages are totally bs as well.. Bring back the old nascar without all the bs.. Mark is 100% right now and nascar needs to go back to the season long system.
I wouldn’t mind going back to old system but my issue with that was that the same few cars were always at the end fighting for championship. There were never any new faces up there which now we have so many more drivers winning and having chances.
How many new teams make the real playoffs in MLB or the NFL or NBA? Chances are pretty good that the favourites are the same every year.
Agree with Mark. A “playoff” elimination style format just doesn’t work when you’re still competing with the entire “league” every week and nobody actually goes home when eliminated. Problem is, nobody would show up for a 500 mile “Championship Final” race if only 2 cars were on the track.
As for the stages, I like the idea of awarding bonus points at various times in the race to incentivize hard racing throughout the event. What I dislike is the stopping of the race for those stages – it removes strategy opportunities from being allowed to play out organically, and winds up just putting everyone on the same strategy. Award the points, keep the track green and stay racing.
I’d also like to see larger point bonuses for winning pole, leading the most laps, and winning the race. Combined with stage points, it would provide multiple different strategies for teams to accumulate points based on performance. Do they still award a point or two for leading the lap at halfway? They should. Shoot, award a few points for the fastest 4 tires+fuel pit stop each race.
With the playoff system, why watch the first 26 races. Non of that matters, just the last 10 races do matter. They can shitty but, just good enough to make the chase and then pour on the coals and just win the last race and be called the champion. While there are other teams with multiple wins that don’t get recognized for their efforts all season. Go ahead and have the stages but keep it green.
I agree 100% with Mark. The Old Points system sucked and this new one actually works and it’s easy to follow. What fans don’t like are these ridiculous “Time Outs” during the race that cost 10 Green Flag Laps. NASCAR itself proved you don’t need Caution Laps at the end of stages plus every single Racecar is equipped with a Transponder so they know exactly where every car is during every single lap. So please explain why the very best Racecar Drivers in the World who are in the Best Shape and better Protected then ever before need 2 or 3 Time Outs during the race? Having Competitive Pitstops makes for exciting racing and youve removed most of that because of these Race Breaks. We paid to see racing not 20 to 30 mandatory follow the leader at Caution Lap Speeds. Bring back the Lead the Most Laps Bonus, Bring Back the Fastest and Best Car Wins instead of trying to Manufacture the Winner through these extended Cautions where cars that would have long ago run out of fuel wind up winning. These Stick and Ball Executives are Destroying NASCAR and how much longer can you continue to Lie that a hale full raceway is sold out. The only sell outs are the ones running NASCAR into the ground
Stop calling it playoffs !
Yes i agree go back to old point system. I hardly ever watch nascar now because of this new point system.
Nascar and the TV guys just like the idea of giving out titles back in the day they hated someone winning the title out to early cause they think do one will watch the last races. So do this have a short track winner a road course winner and super speed way winner. Who is the king of super speedway or the true road course champion. Then it can be the last 3 races. Have a season full of racing give out all your championship trophies and make the last races of the season. One average race can eliminate the best drivers the way it is, especially when a guy out of title contention is trying to win in the playoffs. Cause no one wants to get close to a contender.
Mark Martin is correct.
When did the rocket level off for NASCAR? When they catered to the “play nice” whims of corporate sponsors rather than to the racers and fans. It’s not diversity, it’s not stages and playoffs, it’s not differing track styles…. IT FENDER BANGIN’ , RULE BOOK CHALLENGING, EMOTION FLARING F’N RACING!!!! That the money game!!!