Note: Below is a condensed version of Mark Martin’s interview with Frontstretch‘s Happy Hour podcast. For the full talk, click the video below or listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Since 2004, NASCAR has used a playoff format to determine its champion.
According to NASCAR Hall of Famer Mark Martin, that’s not what the vast majority of the fanbase of the fanbase desires.
“I read it’s less than one out of 10,” Martin told Frontstretch podcast Happy Hour this week. “The people that want the playoffs – it’s playoffs or a version of playoffs, a modified version – you’re talking about 20%. So it’s an 80/20 issue. I don’t care what they say. I respect what they like … but it’s an 80/20 issue. And I know this for a fact.”
Even so, Martin was on board originally, to some extent.
“And I’ll be honest with you, at first, I liked those eliminations because I felt like it broughteverybody together in the last three races down to 10,” he said. “It brought some drama. But after a while, it winds up being manufactured drama. …
“I don’t advocate for the Latford system, necessarily. I’m talking about 36 races, the whole season. Whoever does the greatest job, it’s harder to win a championship when you got 36 races and you have flat tires and you break parts and you get in wrecks.”
He continued: “You know, it’s tough. Drivers would care, like there would be some whooping going on in this first or second race of the season if somebody messed you up. Now it doesn’t matter if you have a bad race. It really doesn’t matter. … It’s a whole different deal, and I’m not saying it would be more exciting or not even saying it would be as exciting, I’m just saying that the fans want it. Over 50% want 36 races, and then the next 30% want a 10-race Chase.
The origin of the whole topic conversation stemmed from a debate on X. Danielle Trotta and Larry McReynolds both advocated for the playoff format, while Martin wants a full-season championship. Since then, a Frontstretch article garnered further attention on the subject.
The conversation makes Martin feel good about his opposition to the current playoff format.
“I feel really good about it, because now for the first time, I’ve seen a couple of active drivers hint that they wouldn’t mind seeing that,” Martin said. “You can’t expect them to tell the truth because that’s how they make their living. But everyone that you get your information from is beholden to the TV money. Everyone!
“And listen … a lot of the fans want to fault NASCAR, yeah, maybe. But I fault the owners, too. They’re addicted to the money. They want to see whatever the broadcast partners want. And obviously, I haven’t told a lot of the details that I know, but … the broadcast network is one of those that wants the playoffs. They don’t understand racing. All they know is stick-and-ball sports. It also makes it easy. Makes it easy for a broadcaster, makes it easy for a journalist or anyone that covers the sport. They have a readymade talking point every damn race.”
Martin said he owes much of his viewpoint on the current format — particularly how he knows how strongly most fans are in support of ditching it — by going straight to the source: the fans themselves.
“I’m out with the fans,” he said. “I don’t live in a bubble. I’m not beholden to the television money or NASCAR or anyone. The race fans are who I’m beholden to. They kept me in the business forever and they still support me beyond belief.
“And I know for a fact the majority of race fans want 36 races. Now, that doesn’t mean that it’ll be more exciting than the playoffs and the eliminations and all that. I’m not saying it would be more exciting. It might be, because 1992 was a good example of that. … It might be a runaway, [but] embrace that too, because somebody that runs away with it is a badass. But I just am speaking for the fans.
“And I know we’re not going to get 36 races. I know it. But … I’m going to stand up for the people that stood behind me and love the sport and support me. So I’m their voice.”
Martin doesn’t foresee change in the determination of a champion. He blamed the TV partners, especially NBC Sports, which airs the remainder of the Cup season beginning at Iowa Speedway.
“You knew, Jeff Behnke with NBC [the network’s vp of NASCAR], I’ve heard him in a meeting, and he says that when it comes to elimination-round, he can see it in the viewers,” Martin added. “Viewers are tuning in. … What he’s not seeing is the people that aren’t tuning in cause they’re sick of gimmicks. …
“The viewers that Jeff Behnke and NBC are chasing are the ones that aren’t racing fans. They just want to see the sparks and the smoke fly, and they’ll tune in for that. And they won’t watch the pre-race show. I just don’t think they can attract as many viewers, non-racing fan viewers, as they can lose by alienating the historical aspect and tradition of the sport.”
NBC Sports declined Frontstretch’s request for comment,
Although there is a committee of people, including Denny Hamlin and media member Jeff Gluck and Martin, who advise NASCAR about the playoffs, NBC Sports overrules them all.
“That’s the appalling part on it,” Martin said. “And I have seriously considering resigning. I considered it after the first meeting because I was embarrassed. Because I didn’t sugarcoat it. I told them about how it was. … After the second meeting, I thought even more about it. I’m going to resign, because there is no use in me being on this because no one’s interested in what the fans want to do.
“… We got a letter from NBC saying they had re-upped for a long time and we can’t have another scheduled meeting about this points deal until they have a say, because they should have a big say in it. And we can’t have a meeting with them for … a long time.”
Martin admittedly does not know what the phrase ‘Game 7 moment’ means.
However, those desiring a full-season championship battle will be sorely disappointed by the committee members.
“Not a single soul on that committee has advocated for a full season points,” Martin stated. “Everyone in the sport knows what the TV partners want. And they also, I’m not saying that they’re wrong, they want to see the most exciting format. And I’m not saying that’s wrong, I’m saying the fans don’t want that. They don’t want this, they want traditional. And if you structure the points correctly, you can have a great championship battle right down to the last race. … And if someone runs away, give them their credit.”
Whatever the future may hold for the sport, Martin knows one thing is certain: he doesn’t hold any ill will toward McReynolds and he knows the feeling is mutual.
“I love Larry McReynolds,” Martin said. “Even when the stuff went down, I sounded so bad on Sirius[XM] Satellite Radio. I know Larry McReynolds. He was my crew chief in 1982. I drove his car that he crew chiefed in early 1982. I know Larry McReynolds. There’s not a mean cell in his body. So I knew that he wasn’t talking about me or didn’t want it the way it sounded. It’s been one heck of a mess. I just feel bad because I know the race fans are in for a disappointment.”
Watch the full interview with Martin, in which he goes into the playoff-related topics more in depth, above.
Mark Kristl joined Frontstretch at the beginning of the 2019 NASCAR season. He is the site's ARCA Menards Series editor. Kristl is also an Eagle Scout and a proud University of Dayton alum.